tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15714418.post8157927934432573882..comments2024-03-25T19:05:07.205-06:00Comments on Reading, Writing, Working, Playing: Atonement: Novel within a NovelJaneGShttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11094501834387622997noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15714418.post-18439752652696154052009-11-16T15:10:51.081-07:002009-11-16T15:10:51.081-07:00I'm not sure the idea has gelled enough to art...<i>I'm not sure the idea has gelled enough to articulate properly, but the idea is that I do believe that telling/listening to stories is fundamental to being human and sharing a culture, and that there are archetypal stories that fill a hole in the psyche and connect us to each other.</i><br />That's certainly very true (Have you read <i>A Short History of Myth</i> by Karen Armstrong?) or <i>The Seven Basic Plots - why we tell stories</i> by Christopher Booker?)<br /><br /><i>Good storytellers tell true stories, bad ones simply manipulate plots and their characters/stories don't "ring true." </i><br />That makes more sense.<br />So, since Briony went from telling lies about Cecelia and Robbie to trying to tell the truth (though the truth will have to wait until the protagonists were all dead to be published) does that mean she went from being a bad storyteller to being a good one in the end? She is obviously a well-respected author by the end of the book, and the impression is given that she's a serious author, not someone who writes novels that rely on plot rather than skillful characterization.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15714418.post-2929001266931662432009-11-09T08:28:06.631-07:002009-11-09T08:28:06.631-07:00>But what really intrigued me was what the hell...>But what really intrigued me was what the hell was going on in Lola's mind?<br /><br />Agreed - Lola's story would make for very interesting reading.<br /><br />With regards to truth, I didn't express myself well and frankly I'm not sure the idea has gelled enough to articulate properly, but the idea is that I do believe that telling/listening to stories is fundamental to being human and sharing a culture, and that there are archetypal stories that fill a hole in the psyche and connect us to each other. Good storytellers tell true stories, bad ones simply manipulate plots and their characters/stories don't "ring true." That's what I meant by telling the truth--as a writer, you flesh out how a character (that you as a writer believe in) responds to life, circumstance, etc. I think that part of McEwan was doing was showing a bad storyteller who was manipulating plot because she didn't want to face the truth--in the end, all the characters (McEwan's and Briony's) are fictional, but some stories are more "true" than others.JaneGShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11094501834387622997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15714418.post-56282452536279550232009-11-08T16:20:41.029-07:002009-11-08T16:20:41.029-07:00This was the first Ian McEwan novel I read that I ...This was the first Ian McEwan novel I read that I really enjoyed! I liked the film too - and I actually didn't have a problem with the ending (in some ways it reminded me a little of John Fowles French Lieutenant's Woman and his double-ending)<br /><br />I agree that Briony didn't atone for her actions - we see her at the start intent on scripting everything, she's the narrator and everyone has to do as she says and behave as she wants them to, which leads me onto your statement:<br /><br /><i>As a novelist, Briony has an obligation to tell the truth as she knows it. That's all a writer can do--that, and admitting when the truth eludes us. </i><br />Novelists have an obligation to tell a story which moves us in some way, or which engages us - but I've never thought that novelists have a mission to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, especially if they are writing fiction (which is what Briony Tallis writes). Even biography-writers tidy the truth up bit, to make it more entertaining/flow better.<br /><br />Did Briony know what she was doing? No. She has a story in her head, initially sparked by that infamous breaking the vase in the fountain scene at the beginning - the vase represents something fragile and valuable which is lost in a moment, it's loss could have been prevented if either protagonist hadn't been so obstinate. Briony was determined to make the facts as she saw them fit the story in her head. She really does tell tales.<br /><br />An alternative version just didn't figure in her mental landscape. She stuck to that version. But what really intrigued me was what the hell was going on in Lola's mind? She knew who the real culprit was, since he'd attacked her earlier. And yet she said nothing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15714418.post-16706565108639121352009-10-27T08:58:40.188-06:002009-10-27T08:58:40.188-06:00Thanks for the fantastic comments, everyone. There...Thanks for the fantastic comments, everyone. There is so much to talk about with this novel. <br /><br />I guess one point I've been thinking about since posting has to do with whether Briony at 13 knew what she was doing--my kids are 15 and 17, and at 13 they definitely knew right from wrong--at 13 I knew right from wrong. <br /><br />I'm actually wondering whether the real villain in the story is the parents. Symbolically, Briony's immature selfishness could be seen as an indictment on the society (parents, class system) that produced such a person. I don't think you can chalk up her behavior to being a child--she was immature, but not a child. One of the lines that really jumped out at me was near the end of the first part when the narrator said that Emily Tallis prosecuted Robbie with a vengeance. I can't look up the exact wording because I've lent my copy to a friend. However, the feeling I had is that Robbie was going to pay for Jack's infidelities, Cecelia's indiscretions, and everything else that came up short in her life.<br /><br />I loved reading all your comments--thanks for sharing them with me.JaneGShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11094501834387622997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15714418.post-71499222385873377612009-10-27T08:52:39.501-06:002009-10-27T08:52:39.501-06:00This comment has been removed by the author.JaneGShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11094501834387622997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15714418.post-53786303025666249942009-10-26T21:41:03.085-06:002009-10-26T21:41:03.085-06:00You took away from the book and movie exactly what...You took away from the book and movie exactly what I did. I did almost feel like I could have skipped the first half of the book since it was so close to the movie. But I was so glad that I just didn't give it up because the whole business about Paul and Lola made much more sense once I read the book.Lisahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05554217416500328610noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15714418.post-23328087141676063902009-10-25T22:03:32.011-06:002009-10-25T22:03:32.011-06:00Great review. I have not yet seen the movie but I...Great review. I have not yet seen the movie but I think we are meant to understand that Briony was sheltered and too naive to understand what she has put into motion (unlike a girl of that age today), and is haunted by her inability to atone although she in theory wants to do so. For an article I wrote about nursing years ago, I read the Lucilla Andrews book that McEwan used as his basis for Briony's nursing experience, and found it very interesting.CLMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03595294217111602231noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15714418.post-91795409989132970132009-10-25T19:14:24.358-06:002009-10-25T19:14:24.358-06:00I agree with you that Briony doesn't atone for...I agree with you that Briony doesn't atone for what she has done -- she's trying to cope with it, but not really atoning. I suppose I believe that fiction writers don't have obligations to anybody, and they can write what they want; however, they have obligations to themselves they can live up to or not, and Briony doesn't live up to her obligations to herself.Rebecca H.https://www.blogger.com/profile/10825532162727473112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15714418.post-56960040833061924012009-10-25T18:00:01.115-06:002009-10-25T18:00:01.115-06:00Unfortunately, I haven't read the book so mayb...Unfortunately, I haven't read the book so maybe I'm missing out on something here. I have seen the film and did enjoy it but I also wanted my happy ending back. I found the character of Briony to be so poisonous as a child that I could hardly look at the screen. Even then, 13 year old girls knew exactly what they were doing. And she evolved into just the sort of adult that you would expect her to. All very well acted though.piningforthewesthttp://piningforthewest.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15714418.post-65828280094753949692009-10-25T09:48:31.265-06:002009-10-25T09:48:31.265-06:00I totally agree with you, Jane. I think Atonement ...I totally agree with you, Jane. I think Atonement is McEwan's best achievement. He did a wonderful job at connoting and giving psychological depth to Briony. She's a wonderful character, both as a child and as an grown-up woman. I can't but despise and hate her for ruining Robbie and Celia's lives but ...she is so wonderfully written. I particularly like the complexity of the narrative layout, too, the novel within the novel. I even read the book twice: in Italian as soon as it was published here, then in English to choose the chapters or pages to read with my students. They loved the movie much, but were so disappointed by its end! I think the story is so terribly good just because it is as it is, ending included. I wouldn't change a word in it. Though it made me so angry, even furious, the first time I met with the final tragic revelation of the true fate of the two lovers.Thanks for this beautiful posting.Maria Graziahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08876779286144473782noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15714418.post-23830298764996907122009-10-25T07:32:58.671-06:002009-10-25T07:32:58.671-06:00The movie also helped me get my head around this b...The movie also helped me get my head around this book and my feelings about it. I also think that the movie gives a lot more hints that it's a story within a story, what with the typing sounds and all--that part is just brilliant.<br /><br />And yes! I agree that Briony doesn't really atone for her wrong-doing. She crafts a story to make herself feel better. The story she tells is a fantasy. But what makes Briony's own story so tragic, to me, is that there is no way she can ever really make it right. And so she's left with the guilt of a crime that she did when she was too young to know what she was doing. No wonder she's fantasizing a better one.Teresahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09896331683344872038noreply@blogger.com